I’ve been linking some interesting political stuff in the past few days, but unfortunately haven’t really given much of my own opinion, and thus have had my personal political views explained only through the sort of stuff I’ve linked. To be specific, of course, I’m referring to Bob‘s recent post.
This is exactly where I stand:
– I believe, accept, and support the results of the election
– My president is George W. Bush
– I do not support the direction of George W. Bush’s previous term
– I do not support the great majority of his plans for the upcoming term
– I do not want to secede from the nation
Now, to get into less black and white issues:
Of course, a lot of people are joking about the North breaking off from the South. Some are more serious. I’m sure the guy from www.fuckthesouth.com would love to. I… well, I’m split on the issue.
The political atmosphere these days is still split. As much as Kerry would like to pretend that he wants everyone to go suck on Bush’s presidential penis because he’s the president of America, I doubt that a great number of people truly want to practice bipartisanship in this time. The mudslinging, from what I can see, went too far this time. Even after a while, Kerry was able to come out and say that Bush’s policies have devastated this nation. You can’t retract a claim like that. (Of course, people who believe Kerry’s a fucking sandal or something goddamn retarded like that would take that sort of “retraction” with a grain of salt.)
What action is there to be taken after we’ve already acted (see: the election)? I really don’t see much at all, legally. The Republican right owns the government. All three branches of government are RED. Get used to “red” and “blue,” they’re long-overdue buzzwords.
What happened a little less than 200 years ago, when people weren’t being treated equally and the country was sharply divided on issues? Civil war. It’d be cute to think the same sort of thing could happen again, but guess who’s on the pacifist side, and guess who has no governmental control to start such a thing. To think that the same people that didn’t want America killing people of other countries now want other Americans dead is ridiculous. At least, I’d hope that the majority of us liberals wants a non-violent solution.
So what sort of stuff do we have today?
http://www.turnyourbackonbush.org/
Sure, it’s powerful; sure, it’s cute. Will it accomplish anything? As much as any other protest will. Great, no signs, no stickers. I like the approach; those signs and stickers are fucking annoying. But it’s still a blatant grasp for publicity.
Basically what I’m getting at is this: I have no idea what to do, besides sitting and telling America “I told you so.” I don’t believe in complaning, I don’t believe in seceeding. I believe in educating – the links I pass around are meant to inform my friends and visitors of some interesting viewpoints (that, of course, I often agree with at least partially).
But after all is said and done, I’m still an American, and I hope, no matter who’s in control, that this country makes good decisions and does what’s most positive as a whole. I have no faith in my president, I expect him to fuck shit up locally and abroad, but I’m certainly not going to encourage those sorts of actions. Just because I accept the facts doesn’t mean I’ve given up, or given in.
edit: Another nice viewpoint, you can tell whether I agree with it all by re-reading my post.
yeah, nice try, I see right through your thinly vieled democratic shit, buddy!
I don’t get it
sarchasm + that Bob guy saying “And all this violently angry democrat shit ain’t helping”
Well jeez, you ARE the pacifist.
Just because democrats are associated with hippies doesn’t mean we’re pacifists. We’re not. We just believe in fighting for something worth fighting for. I believe George W. Bush is worth fighting against.
Democrat or not, I think killing someone to get your way is the wrong way of doing things. Even killing people indirectly, based on the decisions you make. I’m sorry if that’s not the way my party feels, but as I hope you can tell, I can formulate my own viewpoints.
Well if we want to cede, it’s not EXACTILY a declaration of war…
If it comes to fighting, then fighting is what we’ll have to do. I’m not promoting senseless violence.
But wait, I honestly don’t want to cede from the union, I don’t think that’ll achieve anything. I’m just saying that we have to do what we can to preserve this country.
The Facts? The facts? When are the facts not the facts? When someone has tricked you.
Jeffery, you MUST believe me when I say this, but the election is a fraud. The evidence is mounting up, and soon it will be all around us, and I want you, I want YOU to be with us when we are able to say to the world that America isn’t dumb, America isn’t ignorant, America isn’t Republican.
Al Gore clearly won last time around, and I still accepted George W. Bush as my president. I’d be very happy if it turns out that he actually didn’t win and people actually ACT on it this time around, but I’ve never believed in legitimate election results, ever since the advent of the ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM.
Did that stop me from accepting the inagurated candidate as president? Nope.
Jeffrey.*
How can you say that and have respect for yourself?
Do you w00t when someone throws a low punch in a boxing match? Do you just LOVE wall hackers?
How can you honestly be in support of a cheater, who is RUNNING THE COUNTRY.
Please re-read where exactly I stand on the issues.
If we end up not getting our way when this recount business is over, I don’t care enough to do anything but say “tough shit.” I’m sorry, but really, this is the way of all politicians.
Also, read this, you’ll like it.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dies_silvanae/124873.html?mode=reply
Ok, when this recount business is over. But until then, when there is any shred of doubt in our mind, then we must push to get our voices heard!
About the turn your back on Bush.
It may not directly do anything at all.
It probably won’t.
But it will send a clear message to the nation (in theory). That there are people who disagree with Bush and his policies, and are not afraid to state so. Perhaps it will motivate others to become active in politics (though of course,if they weren’t before,who knows why they would start now).
And if for no other reason, there is always the age-old reason. Because we can. And though it may sound stupid, don’t forget, we haven’t always been abl to assert our right to peaceful protest. There have been many times throughout this countries history that those protesting, violently or non-violently, have been persecuted, abused, hosed, jailed, and even killed for doing so.
“Will it accomplish anything? As much as any other protest will.”
word. we all go home and back to our normal lives. what we need is a sustained action out in the streets, but it’d be a logistical nightmare for a protest to do any good.
it’s more of a parade to politisize people and get everyone hyfee versus a form of social change.
(from /. by Angry Black Man (533969))
The referendum in Venezuela happened a few months before the US eletion, and it was also the first widespread use of electronic voting in that country, so it makes for a good comparison. (Wikipedia background on the referendum here [wikipedia.org], think of it just like an election).
The Venezuelan voting process used thumbprints for verification of voters, had heavy international monitors, used voting machines which source code was open and reviewed by thousands of programmers months before the election, and had no less than three paper trails (one which was given to the Carter center, one given to the election board, the other kept for verification purposes). The process of the electronic voting machines was highly scrutinized and available on the web for months for review by anyone interested (in fact, the website is still up right here on the company’s website [smartmatic.com]). Diebold did none of this. The source code was not presented for review. The process was highly unknown and obscure. There were no paper trails.
In the end, Chavez won by 18 percentage points, verified by both the voting comission as well as by the Carter center. The process was standardized and each ballot looked the same and each voter was given the same experience. Exit polls matched, roughly, the actual results. If there had been even HALF the problems in Venezuela that the US has seen, the opposition in Venezeula would NEVER have accepted the results. They would have demanded another election. If 4000 votes were put for Chavez that didnt really exist, the opposition would go crazy. And thats with an EIGHTEEN PERCENTAGE POINT win.
Bush, on the other hand, won by 2 percentage points. TWO percentage points. There were no paper trails. The voting process was NOT standardized. The exit polls did NOT match the final results. Then all these problems arise. And you say “well, he still won by more votes than those which got messed up.”
The point is that the voting should be perfect. Why can venezuela do it and the US cant? EASY– because the venezuelan opposition puts pressure and refuses to accept the results ANY OTHER WAY. Its not that anyone refutes that George Bush got more votes. However, just because it doesnt matter in THIS election doesnt mean it shouldnt be heavily scrutinized and fixed before next election.
Remember, in an election you have to fix things before its a problem. Or else you get a President elected who didnt really win the election (a la Bush in 2000)
You da man, Jeff. The world needs more political folks like you who believe in education about what’s really going on and making intelligent choices on facts, instead of going with feelings and/or the popular opinion, when those aren’t always true. Plus you aren’t all “HATE J00 BUSH, DIE DIE DIEEE!!!1” I agree with Bush on things, but at other times I have to honestly wonder what in the world he thinks he’s doing (…like the war)…but, like you, I’m just hoping for the best with him, and planning for the worst at the same time. That about right? 🙂
I believe, accept, and support the results of the election
Seriously? Do you seriously think the results are 100% legitimate and that there was no fraud at all? I believe Bush won the popular vote, and in a sense that means he has a mandate, and that scares the living shit out of me, but I don’t think he would have won the electoral college vote if it wasn’t for what is looking more and more like pretty obvious fraud in states like, um, Florida and Ohio.
I mean, clearly there’s a difference between accepting something like this and believing in its legitimacy. I mean, I accept the results because I have no choice. This is reality, and we have to work from where we are. But, man, to accept and believe in the Bush administration’s ridiculous proclamation of its own legitimacy? Are you fucking kidding me?
As far as things to do go, it seems pretty clear to me. We (youngins) need to get seriously involved in politics. We can’t just sit around and be like, “Oh, Kerry conceded. I guess we should just accept that Bush won and stop counting votes and close all our fraud investigations now.” Fraud is illegal. This stuff is relevant. Even if Bush is totally immune because of his connections and political status, it’s important that all evidence is a matter of public record, if only so people in the future can suss out what really happened when they write the history books. In the here and now, the democratic party needs to regroup, needs to reform its image, needs to develop some ideological consistency to counterbalance the force of the Christian right… there’s fucking work to do man, in offices, in courts, on the streets. This “everything is RED now, all we can do is turn our backs to Bush and sing the BLUES” stuff is defeatism. Young people need to get involved in politics on a local level, on a national level, on an international level, on every level, and start pushing the other way.
Looking back, I guess “believe” was an iffy statement to say about the results of the election.
I know there was massive fraud. There was corruption, there was manipulation. Does that really matter to me? Certainly; it matters to me as much as any other sort of fraud, corruption, and manipulation that’s gone on in this nation’s history. Like I replied to Felix, “I’d be very happy if it turns out that he actually didn’t win and people actually ACT on it this time around, but I’ve never believed in legitimate election results, ever since the advent of the ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM.”
The government’s always been corrupt; I’ve known this for my entire life. But whoever’s living in the White House is as much my president as any of the other ones have been.
I agree with the majority of your statement. I don’t like what Bush has done (and some of his plans for his second term), but I’m tired of people saying that they want to kill themselves or doing other negative, irrational/impulsive things just because Bush did win the election. We’ve had other ‘bad’ presidents, and then time passed. At least look at each candidate’s policy. (That’s another thing that bothers me…people who vote based on party alone rather than taking the time to even look slightly at each candidate’s stance on certain issues…like the environment, social security, etc.)
Whining people should do something constructive rather than whining, at least. Get informed.
It’s our nation, but the world isn’t exactly going to end any time soon. There are still almost 300 million people in our nation.
That was pretty ramble-y, but yeah. It was nice to hear a viewpoint other than “BUSH WON!” or “BUSH SUCKS!”